Alternate Path Edit

Mention should really be made of the way events unfold if the player goes straight to the Hot Labs after meeting Ventralis. I haven't fully explored how this changes the way things happen, but my understanding is that they are different enough to merit their own walkthrough. Any thoughts? 96.249.136.180 22:36, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hot Labs optional Edit

It should be mentioned that the Hot Labs are not actually mandatory. Once you've defeated Benezia and release/execute the rachni queen, you can just return to the Normandy. I always skipped them. --Darth Something 17:12, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

To be honest I really don't see why. You not only lose out on the exp, but you can learn a bit more about the experiments as well. I beleive there are a few other things that are optional in walkthoughs but aren't mentioned as optional. Lancer1289 17:55, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy and article cohesion must not mean that much to you. You're more about maintaining your power trip. --Darth Something 01:37, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

That was simply uncalled for. I mean, really, are insults at all necessary here? Or ever, for that matter? Let's all grow up and learn to converse like big boys and girls, without having to resort to petty insults. SpartHawg948 01:43, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

It would be better to call story-crucial missions and assignments mandatory, since the player doesn't get the whole picture if they are skipped. UNC assignments, which are not critical to understanding the story, should be labeled as optional for just that reason. Just my thoughts.

(Talk)
(Requests)

01:57, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Wow I really don't know what to say. Power trip really? I merely give my opinion on something, and note that there are other possibilities that things are not marked as optional, and I somehow get my head chewed off. Again. There was no reason for your comment and to say what you did. Accuracy and cohesion mean a lot to me, considering I wrote the vast majority of this article, and the vast majority of walkthroughs on this site. Lancer1289 02:31, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

If I may, I believe the original poster was simply trying to say that a certain objective isn't absolutely required to complete the game. That being stated, I do not know this wiki's policy for what should be considered "mandatory" -- material which gives a greater understanding of the story, or only the material which is absolutely necessary to finish the game (e.g., no side quests, even the ones that have to deal with Saren or the geth). Dracosummoner 02:55, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Rachni Edit

I don't see a mention of if there are any changes in Mass Effect 2 if you release/kill the rachni queen. If you release her does it effect whether or not they show up as enemies in 2? I also wonder if it has any bearing on 3, but since that game isn't out yet, we'll just have to wait to find out. Esparc 02:55, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

There are no rachni enemies in Mass Effect 2. All you get is a message via an asari on Illium if you let the queen go. As to your speculation about mass Effect 3, please take that to the appropriate forum, which is a blog post or a forum page. Lancer1289 03:01, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

Concerning the Farscape trivia note Edit

I understand that we need to maintain some objective perspective in claims here, but this one is so much more obvious than the other Farscape allusions which obviously were judged to pass that bar. Let's take a look at the two scenes:

Each narrative involves a sapient insect-like and space-faring species (called Drach in one case and Rachni in the other) which has developed a means of entering prolonged periods of sleep due to cryogenic means. The workers (explicitly called workers in both narratives) of both species appear nearly identical. At first blush members of either of these species seem to be undeveloped and to operate on the basic level of instinct you'd expect from insects, but in fact they are highly intelligent and capable of communication. Speaking of communication, in both sources, the Queen (also explicitly named the Queen in both stories), achieves this by telepathically co-oping the use of the body of a blue-skinned, hairless "female" alien. In both cases the Queen speaks in a consistent metaphor (the "song" and the "cycle" respectively), and underscores her concern for her young throughout, all while using a voice that has been pitch-shifted and otherwise altered from the normal auditory range for that character. The scene culminates in the main protagonist (a human Commander in both cases) having to make a decision how to proceed that varies between understanding and violent extermination while flanked by two comrades! There's more, shall I go on? Examples for both scenes were available on youtube for comparison when I checked earlier.

And bear in mind we're considering this in the context that the same game featured a mention of a partially-organic and living vessel referred to as a Leviathan (such a vessel by the same label is the primary setting for Farscape), amongst other apparent allusions throughout the series. Look, I'm not saying any of this is empirical proof, but I find it hard to believe that most people, watching both of these scenes and knowing their context, would not find that to be a pretty obvious nod once the similarities are stacked up. Certainly for the trivia section it seems reasonable.

108.248.176.172 22:40, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

And I was so thankful to be given the opportunity to respond with ZERO considering that other things might be going on. It is common courtesy to wait for a response, but apparently I am not granted that for whatever reason.

As to the point, the entire thing is highly subjective with only a few, very ambiguous things connecting them. There are very view direct connections with much of the actual circumstances of it being different.

1. Space faring insects. Too common in scifi to be used as support. Way to many examples of smart insects.
2. Use of Cryogenics: Too common of a theme in scifi, even coupled with other things. There are multiple instances of species, or civilizations surviving through some means of cryo. Stargate has two examples I can think off right off the back, and Star Trek I know has a few as well. Need I go on?
3. Looking the same: Visual comparisons are never valid here. Under any circumstances.
4. Use of a queen. Some connection but not enough on its own, even with the telepathy as telepathy is a common feature in scifi.
5. Consistent metaphor. This being used as support? Anyone when speaking like that will use a consistent metaphor. Just look at radical speakers today. They are pretty consistent. Not enough.
6. Blue-skinned "female" alien. Need I point out the differences here? Using skin color and appearance is no way justifying it.
7. Concern for her young. Of course a queen of an insect colony would be concerned. This is not even close to supporting it.
8. Pitch-shifted. Do you know what the asari vocal range is? I am guessing not. Using speculation to support this is not support. While on that topic, did we even hear that Commando speak? Did not think so.
9. Use of the protagonist and comparing rank. Wow the differences here and the thinness of this shows through. Of course the main protagonist is going to make the decision. Who else would? This has a similarity with every single movie, TV show, video game, book, comic, novel, and anything else along that line today. Using rank is not enough as Crichton is a Commander, while Shepard is a Lt. Commander. There is a difference.
10. Using the scene itself. This scene, or variations like it are subjective comparisons to say the least. All we need to do is tweak a few things, and suddenly we could Star Wars, MacGyver, Star Trek, James Bond, Halo, or anything. This isn't support, this is just a subjective comparison.

The bottom line is that the theme is way to common, the "connections" way to common. The entire thing is based on a highly subjective comparison now that I have had the time to examine it in much more detail, and is not trivia. Lancer1289 00:54, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Of course these are all sci-fi tropes? Who would argue with that? It's the fact that they are all arranged in such a nearly identical fashion in a context where the one source in known to reference the other that makes it so obvious. Sorry but your entire argument here is that the perception of a connection between these elements is subjective. There's just one issue with your rationale: your subjective assessments are no better than mine mine in establishing if that is a reasonable assumption. And rather than leave that judgement to assessment of the wiki users or solicit opinions from other editors, you've opted to begin a revert war. You can't see the forest for the trees on this issue -- your insistence that the one scene can't reasonably be based upon the other because it involves common sci-fi contrivances doesn't hold water when those two scenes are held up side-by-side, but I doubt you've gone through the limited effort it would take to verify that. Your sense of automatic self-justification seems to be becoming pretty common sight to users of this wiki. So don't get indignant with me about not waiting for you to respond, given you had time to revert twice without bothering to engage in discussion. 108.248.176.172 01:10, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Except that is not my job, that is yours. You are the one trying to change the article, so when it gets undone, it is not my job to open a discussion on the issue, it is yours. That is the way things have worked here for quite some time. It is not my job to open a discussion when I'm not the one trying to add something. There are a few instances when I did try and add something, and it was removed, then I started a discussion on the talk page about it to get it back in. Using common themes to justify trivia is not support for trivia. One of my own bits of trivia comparing the final scene at the end of Project Firewalker: Volcano Station was removed based on subjectivity. I didn't contest it at the time, although I've been thinking about it, but if I do, I will follow the established protocol and open a discussion on the talk page about it. This situation is no different. You are the one trying to add something, so it is your job to support it, and it is your job to open a discussion if it gets removed. Not mine. If we opened a talk page discussion for every undo made, then talk pages would be overly long, needlessly repetitive, filled with multiple topics of the same thing, and there would be endless pointless arguments over site policy. The bottom line here is that you are using common scifi themes to support something and it isn't enough. We have never accepted using common themes as support for trivia, because the "similarities" are too common or purely coincidental. If we did, mine would still be standing. I was even hesitant when I posted it. You need to have a lot more than you do, and you do not have it. And just for reference, I looked up the scene and had it playing from DVD while I had ME on another TV, and the "similarities" are highly subjective. And I am a Farscape fan. Lancer1289 01:51, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I started this discussion before your last two reverts and invited you to participate in the edit summaries of my own reverts. You continued plugging away with your revert warring without comment. Also, you clearly don't understand how open-project wiki works, despite your years of experience here. And editor is required to justify his changes, not just new content. You reverted, ergo you started the debate. Nevertheless, I was the first person to start an open discussion about the content and then reverted your revert. And invited you here. You continued to revert without comment. You don't get to have it both ways. Your stance is not the automatic default which I have to overcome. You are just one contributor. If you felt the content should change and my revert of your revert showed you that I felt different, the burden is actually on you to engage in defense of your position, the same as any editor would have to. Likewise, you keep throwing around the term "subjective" without any indication that you understand the irony of you basing your assessment upon purely personal criteria.108.248.176.172 02:20, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

And again, you never gave me the chance to respond, and I hope that you do not revert as you will tie my hands. See my lengthy comment on your talk page about that. You also fail to realize that we have standards and polices, and from all of your comments, you want us to throw that out the window just so you can allow your trivia in. You also cannot have it both ways as I am partaking in a discussion, yet you keep forcing the issue. There are two people in conflict over an edit, that does not mean that you get your way. That means the article stays the way it was until the situation is resolved. You do not get your way, and the site policies and site standards are upheld. And FYI, Subjective is an acceptable undo reason here. This is a situation where you are in the wrong, and I am right, supported by policies, standards, and precedent. Lancer1289 02:39, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

tl;dr over nothing. the only way the farscape allusion can be considered trivia is if the devs acknowledge the inspiration. Temporaryeditor78 01:15, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Temp. If that's the policy (I've never seen it before but will take your advice on it), then I guess it's a mute issue. It's noteworthy though that the trivia sections of a few pages are laden with such references. 108.248.176.172 01:35, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)That is incorrect. You can add trivia if there is enough evidence to support it, and there is not enough in this case, but to outright say "this is a reference" needs devconfirmation. You can say "this may be a reference" without devconfirmation, but evidence must be there to support it. And again, this case lacks enough evidence to support it. Lancer1289 01:51, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

According to you. You do realize how a wiki works, yeah? That it's a collaborative effort based on an attempt to build consensus? If there is no policy explicitly barring the inclusion of this content, I am reverting, since I don't view your subjective assessment as superior to mine, since I can't imagine a reasonable person not seeing a similarity between those scenes (even in the grand scope of recurrent sci-fi themes) and since you've already reverted three times. You can always use your admin powers to unilaterally ban me, of course -- but I don't think even you can do that without recognizing it as an abuse of your position. A better solution would be to take the issue to another admin who does not have a pre-established position, or, better yet, to take it to a "request for comment" page if this wiki has one that I've yet to locate. 108.248.176.172 02:23, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

No, you are the one who does not realize how it works, or how things work here. You are not the only one person here, and you do not get your way over anyone else. You cannot revert because you will break site policy and tie my hands. I am not using my admin abilities or powers here, if I was, I would have banned you already and dropped the matter. When two editors are in dispute, then what happens above is what happens, not what you think will happen. So stop with the attitude and perhaps we will get somewhere. Lancer1289 02:40, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

And look what happens, another admin has come along and also called the comparison subjective. So what happens now? Lancer1289 02:41, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

First, you misspelled Drak. Second, the very nature of the species as how they interfere and interact with the crew of Moya is vastly different than how the Rachni carry themselves as a species. Not to mention how they operate in the cryogenesis as one is completely voluntary and the other is seemingly involuntary but overall unknown. The Drak unlike the Rachni are also a species that depend upon space itself in order to propagate. You could say the Rachni do, but they use ships, not floating around in the dark cold of space.--Xaero Dumort 03:30, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

i personally saw the allusion to farscape but found the connection to mass effect hazy at best (summing it up: same but different. lancer here pointed out most of why). it's something i would put in tvtropes, not here. even if it's just trivia. hence, my original reasoning why we'll need dev confirmation. Temporaryeditor78 07:17, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Elevator Bug Edit

I've had issues, over several playthroughs, with the elevators in Peak 15, and in Port Hanshan as well, though less so.

It seems that if you press the button while Shepard is moving (though not every time, I've found), sometimes the elevators will simply not work. Once the button inside is selected, the party will snap into their standard elevator ride poses, but the doors will not close, so the elevator will not ascend or descend. The party is also unable to move. The only way I have found to solve this is to reload a save. It was very annoying the first few times, since I would usually end up losing quite a bit of game time.

Even with the patch, this seems to happen to both Steam and Retail versions from what I've seen from google. Should we put a note up about it, at least as a warning so those who don't save as regularly might not loose so much data?

FOTU (talk) 01:35, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

patched 1.02 and all DLCs? i've read from patch notes the elevator bug is supposed to be fixed. still happens to my squads on occasion and i've long since classified this as one of those unavoidable minor bugs. good thing i F5 often. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 03:26, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Steam automatically keeps the installed games up-to-date. The patches also don't work with Steam copies anyway. Don't have the Pinnacle Station DLC any more, but I remember it happening in earlier playthroughs where I did still have it (I have the other DLC, Bring Down the Sky). In any case, this still seems to pop up in the patched retail versions as well. My main concern was simply that it might be prudent to write the bug up somewhere on this mission page, like we've done in others, as this could quite easily make people lose quite a bit of game time. FOTU (talk) 03:06, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

per site policy we need at least 3 users confirming things like this. we need another guy to claim similar things - that the bug ain't fixed even if patched to the latest version on PC copies. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 05:55, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

I have a fully patched PC version (version 1.02) of Mass Effect with both DLCs and seem to encounter the elevator bug (the elevator door will not close and becomes "frozen") at various points in Peak 15. It seems to be most frequent at Rift Station and the Hot Labs, but sometimes occurs in earlier locations. Once saw another type of elevator bug (the one leading out of the area where Shepard can activate the neutron purge) where the elevator door is open, but substantially above the floor level (teleporting into it via console commands causes problems as the elevator does not go the the correct place). I only saw this bug once though.76.23.115.144 02:52, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

The patch notes for version 1.02 do indeed claim to have fixed the problem (and specifically mention Peak 15) but I still have seen this issue occur. 76.23.115.144 02:56, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Empty Malfunctioning Object Edit

Several times through Peak 15, I have found that the Malfunctioning Object in the first room of the Reactor Core Section (the one where there are three exits: the way you entered, and a door to the catwalks on the left and right) simply does not give out items. No window pops up like every other crate, malfunctioning object, or locker in the game, nor any item indicator as in battles.

Is this something other people have encountered?

FOTU (talk) 01:44, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

I have also observed this peculiarlity.76.23.115.144 02:58, January 20, 2013 (UTC)