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--LordFransie 03:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC) I have heard of a glitch where when talking to the tauran who asks you to get his disk from his office, if you keep on using the charm response you can get +24 paragon repeatedly. meaning you can ask him to be a hero over and over.

For the infinite points trick, it would be good to know how much intimidate or charm skill you need to pull it off.

Shadowflay 15:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC) I'm fairly certain 75% in both paragon and renegade is achievable in one playthrough without exploitation, and I would like to add this or see it added to the opening section of this article if someone can confirm. I've come very close personally and had points left over.

I'm going through all the conversation options and trying to index what responses give you what amount of morality, and I'm constantly finding that every time an option gives me 8 Paragon, the corresponding Renegade option gives me 9 Renegade points. I'm wondering if this is how it's supposed to be, if there's a bug, or something I did to my character gives me extra Renegade points. My character is a Ruthless colonist female. I'm on the second playthrough with her, and on the first playthrough I maxed Renegade, and maxed intimidate. Currently her Charm level is at 6, and Intimidate is maxed. Anyone have any ideas? Could it be possible that maxing the corresponding skill gives you more morality points? NOTE: options that give 2 morality points don't give me any extra Renegade points, only options that give me 8 Paragon give me 9 Renegade. I haven't tried it with any options that give large amounts like 25 yet. --Stufff 08:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Having a Ruthless character gives you bonus Renegade points. Your psych profile and pre-service history affect how many Paragon/Renegade points you get, so it's different for everyone. (See the Commander Shepard main article.) That makes it hard to put a standard gain of Paragon/Renegade points on assignments. --Tullis 08:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Damn, I've been putting incorrect information up everywhere then. I guess I'll play through the game again as a character who only has a bonus to either Paragon or Renegade. If I do that, then the option I don't have a bonus for should be the base value before background affects it. Then once some base reward values are known we can determine exactly how much each background gives as a bonus.--Stufff 14:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Ending shot Edit

I heard that the space station that appears over the planet differs from Paragon to Renegade, as well as the colour change. I have no idea what space station I saw, to be honest (Paragon/save the Council ending) but I've heard some people got the Citadel. Maybe it's Paragon/Renegade *and* the choices made at the ending that affect it. --Tullis 07:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


I'm not sure on this, but my money says its Arcturus station. 75.2.41.164 05:38, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Slothen

Arcturus is supposed to be a Stanford Torus, shaped like the Presidium. Maybe it's Jump Zero, but then it wouldn't be in orbit over a planet. --Tullis 15:27, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I vote it's some kind of new human ship --Jono 01:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


I think the station in the Paragon ending may actually be the Minuteman station from Mass Effect 2 --71.49.247.254 05:55, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Morality Scales?Edit

The scales on the character sheet have 4 bars, implying that they correspond to 20%, 40%, 60%, and 80%. I know that the morality achievements say 75%, but has anyone actually checked if you get your last bonus persuasion point at 75, or do you get it at the final bar, which would mean 80% ? 75.2.41.164 05:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Slothen

Morality Innacuracies Edit

Having finished my most recent playthrough of the game, the first free point for Charm/Intimidate came at 10% of the paragon/renegade scale. You start with 3 empty ranks for both Charm and Intimidate. The first point you get from either reaching 10% or becoming a spectre unlocks 3 more empty ranks. The second, third, and fourth points unlocked will each give 2 more rank openings. I'd like someone to verify for me before I edit the page on morality.

Confirmed, the first rank/free point opens at 10%, see my morality guide edit on totals needed

--Sonevar

A Question about Shepard's facial scars. Edit

It's mentioned that the more Renegade points you have, the more deformed Shepard becomes. I'm curious however... Does this mean if I maxed out my renegade points on my initial Mass Effect run through, he'll come out looking like "Dark Shepard" right off the bat once you start up Mass Effect 2? Or does it only count if you build up renegade points during ME2? AngelOfIron 04:19, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

It's a fairly slow evolution of facial scars being added/removed by renegade/paragon, and if you start off at a full bar of renegade from ME, you'll end up with roughly 20% or so I think of renegade in ME2 (that's if you don't have max Paragon too, because it seems to see you as paragon if you maxed both), at about 20% renegade you don't see a huge difference yet on the scars, at least I'm not seeing it yet on my renegade run, my paragon run who did 100% paragon 40% renegade took me until about 85% Paragon to really see no scars at all, likely because of the amount of renegade I had with it, so they semi-balance each other. This run through I'm maxing renegade, then maxing Paragon, to see how full Paragon/Renegade at 100% actually looks. But yeah, full answer to your question is no, you won't be fully "Dark Shepard" as you put it, right off the bat. Jaline 04:28, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Alright, that answered my question. Thank you very much Jaline. AngelOfIron 05:37, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Another question on the facial scarring - am I correct in assuming that if you use the med bay upgrade to heal your scars, your eyes will not turn red while following the renegade path? Ev0lve 23:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Correct.Tanooki1432 22:53, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

A question just because I'm curious: Does the picture in this article show the worst that the facial scarring gets? I'm still working on a Renegade Shepard in ME2 (a couple actually, haha), but I haven't noticed anything change in a while and that picture doesn't look too different from what I have on my character currently. Again, I'm still working on it myself, but I was just curious. --Mymindislost 21:00, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yup, I think that what's pictured in the article is the fullest extent of the renegade scarring. -- Dammej (talk) 21:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
Awww. I was hoping it would get CRAZY weird looking, but oh well. Thanks! --Mymindislost 21:13, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Paragon/Renegade points completely independent?Edit

I'm wondering if choosing a Renegade option dose anything to the number of Paragon points I have, or to my ability to earn them. For example, sometime, in the conversation wheel, there is no Paragon (northeast) option, just the neutral (east) and Renegade (southeast)option. In such situations, where there was no way to earn Paragon points anyway, do I hurt myself by choosing the Renegade option? Servius 07:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

There are a few conversations where using a renegade dialogue choice will prevent a paragon choice from appearing later in the conversation. Other than that, though, no - gaining renegade points does not remove or otherwise influence paragon points, and vice versa. Ev0lve 23:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Total PointsEdit

Anyone have any idea how many points it takes to max out the bars? In ME1 I never really counted, and in ME2 it's sort of skewed as putting squad points in your "class skill" (Assault Mastery for Vanguards, Combat Mastery for Soldiers etc.) increases the amount of bar filled.Tanooki1432 22:57, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

ME1 i keep hearing 330 points. (so achievement is about 250, and assignment about 265). all things considered, it sounds right anyways; it would take about 12 of the 9-point renegade options, and maybe 14 of the 8-point paragon options to hit those marks. (minus the umpty-hundred 1 and 2-point rewards, too.)

Opinions on MoralityEdit

I tend to largely go on the Paragon side of morality, except when my meter is completely filled or a renegade interrupt comes up. I'm not alone in this, but I think its because people are uncertain of of the outcomes, so which is why they would choose the good side first. The 2nd time, I'd go Renegade and the 3rd time, a balance of both. Once again I think this is what others usually would do as well when playing these types of games. H-Man Havoc 01:47, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think the paragon hero path is definately the better choice. Sure some of the renegade actions and results are cool, but for a lot of conversation options Shepard is just being an insensitive ass. Probably best to do a mix, be prepared to take someones head clean off, yet be a shoulder to cry on, you know? JoMac223 04.32, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Comments like this belong in the forums or a blog post as this isn't what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 03:35, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Should it really be compared to "Good" and "Bad"? Edit

The morality article compares the morality scale in Mass Effect to scales in other games, like Knights of the Old Republic, and implys that in Mass Effect, you choose between good and bad. I for one do not see the morality scale as good or bad at all. The word "Paragon" is used to descibe someone that is a "model of excelence", someone who does everything in the ideal manner. In the game this is reflected by actions that save as many people as possible, give people a second chance, or involve compromise. The word "Renegade" is another word for outlaw. Shepard's renegade actions could be compared to a "loose-cannon cop" from hollywood; a vigilante who gets the job done at any cost with no concern for colateral damage. Even so, Shepard is still risking his life to save the galaxy, his actions are not "bad", they are just rough and callous. Calling it a "Morality scale" supports that they are two different methods for saving the Galaxy, as "Morality" is how someone decides between good and bad. Having looser definition of what is bad and what is just acceptable means to save the galaxy doesnt make Shepard "bad", as everyone has a differing opinion of morality.

Well you can look at it like, " Will Shepard save the galaxy at the cost of universal life, or save the galaxy at the cost of his own safety and well being." That would be the Bad way and the Good way( in the order of seeing it). Shepard would be this sorta bad hero but good villian, or a good hero but bad villian. Do you see what I'm saying?MEffect Fan 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be though that the difference in the two paths is one of opinion, not of good and bad. If shepard were to have the interests of cerberus and humanity as his main goal, as a character, he would still think he was doing the "good" thing. And in a situation where every living thing in the galaxy could die, shepard could very easily believe that the ends justify the means for some of the more extreme renegade actions. "Morality" as i have said, is a measure of what a person considers to be good and bad. Just because you might not agree with the renegade version of morality doesnt mean its "Bad". If Shepard were going to be bad, he would pursue the situation in a way that best serves him/her, such as doing whatever grants Shepard the most power. But the ultimate goal is a very selfless attempt to save all life. Good, by anyones standard

I always kinda saw them more like the Lawful/Chaotic axis than the Good/Evil axis of the D&D way. A Lawful Good Paladin would never sacrifice the lives of the Council, but a Chaotic Good Rogue might. The game is constructed in such a way that you can't really be "evil", you just go about doing things in a more violent, destructive, callous way. (although, who knows, in NWN2 you could backstab your entire group at the end and kill them all in the name of the King of Shadows if you were "Evil", so maybe at ME3 you'll be given the option to sell the Galaxy out to the Reapers... Who knows...) Tanooki1432 16:13, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Think about Mordin's Genophage V2. He did it for all the good reasons, even though a paragon Shepard will try to prove him wrong, just because he "cursed" another race. The renegade option is to agree with Doctor Solus instead. By spreading the new cure among the krogan population, the salarians might save more people than the amount of children that are born dead. Morality, in this game (and IRL for that matter), is just an opinion. Even though it's depicted as good and evil most of the time, a renegade Shepard might have the greater good in mind, while a paragon might give a naive impression. 91.177.47.21 23:15, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

You're picking one or two examples that really are the exception to the renegade rule though. Let's look at a few more, as they pop into my head. On Zaeed's loyalty mission, the Renegade option is to leave a facility full of innocent civilians to die, just so you can take out one man and satisfy Zaeed's blood-lust. The Paragon option is to save the innocents and delay Zaeed's revenge a bit. What greater good does letting the civilians die serve? What "naive impression" does the Paragon give?
Samara's loyalty mission- the Renegade option is to let a mass murderer live and kill a woman committed to bettering the galaxy. The Paragon is to help Samara and kill the mass murderer. Same two questions as before. Thane's recruitment mission - a renegade option is to push a mercenary out the window, causing him to fall to his death. Where's the greater good? Jack's loyalty mission - the Renegade option is to kill a mentally disturbed man. The Paragon option is to let him live. Jacob's loyalty mission - the Renegade option is to kill Ronald Taylor yourself, directly or indirectly, committing vigilante justice. This as opposed to letting the authorities capture him. In Garrus' recruitment mission, the Renegade path leads to some dumb kid getting shot in the face, which can be easily prevented using the Paragon route. In Mordin's recruitment mission, you can go Renegade and betray some batarians you've agreed to let go. My point here is that there is a good reason that Renegade options are generally deemed bad. It's because they are bad. Nine times out of ten, at least, there is no "greater good in mind". SpartHawg948 23:28, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
I think examples can be found in ME 1 and 2 for both cases, because BioWare themselves don't seem to be decided upon what Renegade and Paragon means. I personally always thought that handing the evidence over at Tali's trial should be a Paragon option, because Paragons tend to the lawful good, regardless of consequences, and no Paragon worthy of the name should be perjuring themselves (Yes, I know Shepard isn't "sworn in" and doesn't take an oath to tell the truth, but a Paragon character doesn't require that oath to be 'forced' to tell the truth), whereas a Renegade character who may be more of the Chaotic Good alignment isn't going to blink an eyelid about breaking laws to help a friend.
I'll agree that Samara's loyalty mission very much paints a good and evil picture, although even there, there are grey lines. The problem with the Paragon/Renegade choices, like most 'morality' choices in computer games is that so much of the good vs bad argument depends upon motivation, not the actual action.
Jacob's loyalty mission, for example - I very much think that the vigilante justice ending is perfectly renegade, and very in keeping with the chaotic good alignment. If bad guy scumbags didn't get their comeuppance in some way or another, Hollywood would be out of business. I don't see the renegade options in Jacob's mission as evil at all.
Although I'll definitely agree that there's no real 'greater good' in mind in that mission - Although you can't really claim that there is if you keep him alive, either. The guy's scum. Deserves everything he gets. Raphaeldisanto 23:27, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Special optionsEdit

What influences special paragon/renegade options availability? Why different players need different amounts of paragon/renegade points to unlock one and the same dialogue option?Sashafan2 17:31, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

In ME2 the game checks for how many paragon/renegade points you have compared to the total possible amount you can get when you start a discussion. If you paragon/renegade points are at a certain amount, it lets you choose the paragon/renegade option. Events such as the Miranda/Jack catfight are harder to paragon/renegade resolve the later you do them in the game because there's a greater amount of potential points the more you hold it off. Darkman 4 17:58, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
I understand the concept, but I didn't understand your explanation of it Darkman. No offense to you of course. Can you maybe simplify the answer, just to cater to my stupidity? Maybe draw a picture? OOOOOH! I like pictures. ;)--Effectofthemassvariety 18:09, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
Simply put, each submission/dialog/etc has number of points X. Out of these, you get anywhere from 0 to X, depending on choices. So overall, there's a percentage of Renegade and Paragon, that you don't see. Actions have a minimal percentage. For example, you need 90% evelness to choose Morinth, not 90% Renegade. If you are at the beginning, then 90% means that out of 50 points you need 45, which are easy to rake in. As the game progresses, you start missing points because you missted interrupts, chose bad dialog options, etc. As a result, you have 80% of maximum available and the option is gray. Because of this, there are people who get Morinth with only half of max Renegade, because they are half way through. Other people have 80% Renegade, but because they are at their last mission, it's under the required 90% and it's gray.
Once you get the bar filled, however, you're at 100% and you can start filling the other bar. I don't know if you can fill both, but I filled Renegade with a few missions to do (importing a ME1 full-both character). Renegade was filled with all recruitments done, no side missions, not all dialogs on Normandy and still Samara, Thane, Miranda and maybe more still having their loyalty missions open. Not at IFF yet. Paragon is over 40%.-- IMNdi 00:40, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

What ending do you get if your Paragon and Renegade scores are equal? Edit

Just wondering. TheUnknown285 20:04, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

I think it depends more on options taken in dialogue wheels... In ME1, if you choose the "Let the Council die." option, you get the more renegade-y ending of the all-human council. If you choose "Focus on Sovereign" you get the more paragon-y ending of the human-led council. If you choose to save the council, my guess is it would depend on whichever score is higher, even if it's by a few points, as it's probably almost impossible (barring infinite point bugs) to get them exactly equal. In ME2, the ending depends on either saving or blowing up the Collector Base. My guess is even if you've been the most renegade person, if you choose to blow up the base, you'd still get the "paragon" ending with the blue star behind the Illusive Man. Although that's just a guess. Tanooki1432 16:05, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

ME2 Class Options Edit

In ME2 you can evolve your "class" skill (Operative for Infiltrator, Defender for Sentinel etc.) to include either 70% morality points or 100%. Is this a multiplier or a cap? Example: If I take, say, Assassin as an Infiltrator, (70% Paragon/Renegade Points) over Agent (100% Paragon/Renegade Points) does that mean I can only get 70% of the maximum points or that it'll just take a little longer to max them out? Tanooki1432 16:05, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's a multiplier. If you take the 70-percent path, then your paragon and renegade scores are (base * 1.7). If you take the 100-percent path, then the scores are (base * 2). Either way, it's not a cap, and you can continue to earn paragon and/or renegade points. PhoenixBlue 19:08, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Doing Both Edit

In ME1, is it possible to unlock both the Paragon mission (saving the hostage scientists) and the Renegade mission (negotiating with lord whatshisname)? I havent been able to reach both 75% percent on both scales without the help of the endgame morality choices, at which point it's too late anyway. 71.20.43.135 07:06, July 18, 2010 (UTC)</

There is, but it is extremely difficult to do without using one of the infinite points glitches. Lancer1289 07:14, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
I haven't been able to do so on my numerous playthroughs but its supposedly possible with strategic dialogue (typically picking the option that gives the most points, and when even pick the bar that you are lacking in the most) all while taking into account the freebies such as the relatively large amount of free paragon and renegade points in Virmire Ilovetelephones 08:43, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
This can be done without using any glitches. Just needs good planning and a spreadsheet. Perj 20:59, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Happen to have such a spreadsheet? I made one for research and buying items in ME2 but this seems to be a bit of a wider scope. Ilovetelephones 12:06, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-Service HistoryEdit

Does anyone know if the morality bonuses still apply in ME2?Kalaong 09:24, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

If they do, then it's not visible in the values and is multiplied like the class skill bonus. Tanooki1432 12:22, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


Math Mess during Import Edit

This is my vanguard Shepard, picture taken on the Citadel Exterior, at the hatch that leads to the Council Chamber. After this picture there were only two more morality changes: the first was convincing Saren (I believe I used the Intimidate option here, not sure though), the second was the Council's Fate (definitely got Paragon points on this one). The final picture was Shepard on a red background. Now the problem is that when importing this Shepard into ME2, for some reason it says Shepard has had a Paragon life, which means Shepard had more Paragon than Renegade points. Anyone got any ideas where it all went wrong? Perj 06:20, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

For the purposes of importing, it's the fate of the council that determines whether you took the "Paragon" or "Renegade" path. Everything else is incidental. Since you saved them, you are deemed a paragon. I believe that you'll still acquire more renegade points than paragon points upon import. -- Dammej (talk) 06:24, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
I got 190 Paragon and 190 Renegade when waking up on the Lazarus Station, right before taking the pistol from the locker. Perj 10:02, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
The amount of paragon/renegade points carried over to ME2 is capped at 190, and only requires 50% of the bar to be full (in ME) for the whole 190 to be carried over. Since you clearly had over 50% Paragon/Renegade in ME, you received 190 in ME2 for both. As Dammej said, the ending decision is what decides your Shepard's 'morality' in ME2 (the Council surviving/dying choice is seen as pivotal, for some reason). Hope that helps. Bronzey 10:43, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
Also note that only the decisions you made affect the game, not the 'Paragon' or 'Renegade' rating you got when you imported, so the game won't be acting like you're Paragon just because of that end decision (not that the game acknowledges your ME1 leanings anyway).JakePT 11:39, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
Right, it doesnt matter much what kind of life Shepard had in ME1, just wanted a bit of continuity. The fate of the Council may take precedence over the bars if you choose to "Save them" or "Forget about them", but if you choose to "Concentrate on Sovereign" the bars do matter. Did that on the sentinel, he had more paragon than renegade, the council died, yet when importing him he had had a Paragon life. Thanks for the help everyone Perj 07:41, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
I have to disagree. I'm playing with a renegade import, having saved the council. I was maxed out on ym renegade bar in ME1, and am counted as having taken the renegade path in it according to ME2. Council's still alive. So I think it does in fact have more to do with your scores. At least it always has for me.NickTyrong 06:45, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
I didn't save the council, had both bars filled, and it counted as Paragon. I did exploit that glitch with the space monkeys or whatever they are to fill out the paragon bar, so maybe that f'd things up somehow.76.226.126.60 19:17, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Save Corruption Details? Edit

I'm playing through ME1 for the the fourth or fifth time, trying to get my Paragon Shep to level 60 while also trying to get all of the achievements done in the same playthrough. One of them was 75% Renegade. I noticed the Morality page talks about Lorik Qui'in glitch having the possibility of corrupting your files, however, I have seen nothing on the talk page detailing the circumstances. Was it PC or Xbox? Was it when you tried maxing out a morality? Or maxing out both moralities? Have others confirmed it? Or was it just a fluke? I looked around (on Google of course) and no one seemed to know anything, just that the ME Wiki said this was so and now everyone's worried their ME2 game isn't going to be just right (like me--I want every assignment, every detail to be just right for ME3. I don't want to miss even a single email, or whatever). Can someone please show, both me and the people who read this wiki for support and detail, exactly what the article means by this? Sources, please. DrScarecrow 23:04, October 21, 2010 (UTC)DrScarecrow

This entry was added by ShotgunK2 on April 24, 2010. --Geiger 04:40, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

One would assume the source is personal experience while playing the game. The same source as is used for most articles of this nature. If this is the case, showing a source would be next to impossible, especially for a bug of this nature. SpartHawg948 04:47, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
The problem being that there are several known save import bugs that are not Qui'in related. It seems probable that the user encountered one of these, and not a special case. Without a source, or at least a better explanation, this bit should probably be removed. --Geiger 02:52, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
And the problem there is that it's a matter of opinion. Unless you have something substantive confirming that it is indeed "probable" that the bug encountered was not Qui'in related. Otherwise it would be a 'your word vs his' thing. SpartHawg948 03:00, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
Hate to raise the dead but this thread from the forums seems to indicate that it's unlikely the Qui'in glitch causes corruption. The number of clean transfers versus corruptions that can be directly linked to this point should settle this, for reference purposes. It could be said that it may corrupt your transfer, but that warning could be made for numerous other points in the game that were not exploited and still resulted in a corruption, error, or glitch. mvm5053 02:18, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup Prop Edit

Any thoughts on how to clean this article up a little? I removed the 'thumb' framings from them, polishing the picture looks overall from the Ashley shot (which I think looks great still..) and the Renegade scarring one. The only thing I can think of is trying to clean up or migrate the 'Infinite Points' glitches to their respective Morality Guides. Anyone have a thought there? --Aryn2382 23:31, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think the article looks fine, so I've removed the tag. If you can think of any other small tweaks to the page, go for it, but I don't see anything more to do offhand. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:37, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

"Background bonus" Edit

I really don't understand how exactly does a background bonus factor into Paragon/Renegade accumulation.

Simple question: Do backgrounds grant a specific amount of bonus points from the get go, or do they just affect how many points you get whenever points are gained? So, for example, does Spacer/War Hero add a X% bonus? Say, you'd normally gain 10 Paragon points. But in this case, you gain 12 points due to the extra 20%? Or whatever the percentage is.

I can't find any concrete info on this anywhere.

It's the former. Your background and psych profile choices give you a specific amount of morality points. They do not alter the rate at which you receive P/R points throughout the game. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:49, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

-Thanks. This was kinda bugging me.

Charm/Intimidate, or Paragon/Renegade Interrupt? Edit

In Mass Effect 2, which earns more morality points: Charm/Intimidate options or Interrupts? Assume that Shepard's reputation is "Sole Survivor". I thought of this while on Jack's Loyalty mission.

Wikia sig NicKeL BreaD Talk 05:59, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Percentage System and Infinite Paragon/Renegade ExploitEdit

In ME2, there's the infinite Paragon/Renegade point glitch in the very beginning, with Jacob and Wilson. The page mentions that it could take up to 250 saves to max out the bar. Does this mean for both bars to be maxed out, or just one? I'm assuming that it means 250 saves for one bar to be maxed out (I think someone said that it was 900/900+ possible points for one bar) and 250 x 4 = 1000.

Also, due to the percentage-based system, does this infinite-points glitch even matter? Are they still counted toward the "total possible points" score despite being technically taken out of a figurative points-void, and if so, does the percentage system void them out anyway? For the sake of argument, let's say there's a total of 1000 points in the game. You save-and-reload 250 times, equalling 1000 Paragon points and maxing out the Paragon bar. By this point, you could already have 6 points from previous dialogue options, plus 190 points from an ME1 import, equalling a total of 1196 points before the game even gets going, so there's still 990 possible points to earn. (1000 -6 from previous dialogue - 4 from the max points you were supposed to have earned in that dialogue.)

Does the game compensate for this? 990 left to earn, so it jacks the total points to be considered to 1190? And how does it work for imports? Do you just stop earning points once you've reached 1000, even if there's still more left to be earned for those who hadn't had the 190 bonus, and the game counts it as 100%? Or does the game consider 1190 to be the new total, and calculates the percentage from there? I know that the extra import points do matter, because the fact that it doesn't carry over to an ME2 import has rendered many dialogue options impossible for me when using an ME2 import -- ones that I could use previously -- even though I'd consistently chosen the Paragon-point-earning option in every possible dialogue choice.

IN SHORT: Does the infinite points glitch matter? How much? Do you screw up the system entirely and render it invalid if you decide to exploit it for both Renegade and Paragon points? How much does the imported bonus matter in the end? How the hell does this percent system work and who in the name of all things logical thought it was a good idea in the first place? And why does my brain hurt so much now?

Also, I suck at math, so it is possible that my math/theories here are entirely incorrect and I just totally embarrassed myself, so if that is the case, for the love of God, someone please correct me.

-- Reddazrael (talk) 03:09, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


Mastery no more? Edit

So if I read that right, you will want to get 75% e.g. of Paragon, to grab all the bonuses you can, and then (while at it) try to get 80% for an additional exclusive (Paragon vs. Rogue) mission. Hmmm... I was looking forward to getting Mastery like in Knights of the Old Republic (I and II) or Jade Empire... seems 80% is good enough then? On the good side this does un-stress collecting a bit. — AEon (talk) 17:11, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

What was the point of this? Lancer1289 (talk) 17:21, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Renegade Randall Ezno Edit

Should I add a picture in MEI section with the face of a renegade Randall Ezno (such as for Shepard in ME2) or it is unnecessary ? There is no much place... --DeldiRe 20:53, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

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