Talk: Feros: The Thorian

Anti-Thorian Gas

The Anti-Thorian Gas from a previous playthrough doesn't work on the colonists (for me, at least).

--Lucius Voltaic 17:00, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Poissible glicth with rescuing/losing colony

In my latest playthrough (a rushed, lvl 60 character to clear Insanity) Jeong was killed but all 16 members of the colony members (as well as Shiala) survived - however, in a rush to skip the text, the commands of "Skip the gas - we can't let them stop us." were selected just before re-entering the Zhu's Hope garage. After removing the Thorian, the Colony was labled as Lost and the survivors (again, all 16 as well as the Exo-Geni survivors) commented that they were leaving soon.

That is interesting perhaps it was tied to your dialogue or killing Jeong, but then I've done both on one playthough and the colony still survived. I'm thinking it's a glitch on your end, but that's my best guess. Lancer1289 12:56, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

I just did a playthrough with the following conditions achieved --

(1) Do all colony side quests, convince Jeong (renegade, idk if it matters), select "Wipe them out" and the next choice on the right side of the dialogue wheel (something to the effect of "no, eliminate all hostiles") when you get back, kill the 16 colonists, and spare Shiala;

(2) As above, but choose the next choice on the left side of the dialogue wheel after saying "Wipe them out" (something to the effect of "okay, but take no chances").

With (1), the colony will be lost; with (2), the colony will be saved. Therefore, although the formula on the wiki may still be correct, there is also a dialogue trigger to saving/losing the colony. I still have my Feros save, so if someone wants I can try some other conditions and see what happens, but for now I'd like to add this dialogue condition/trigger to the wiki article. Rtl42 07:06, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

So what happened tp "I'd like to add this"? I have a big problem with this as this isn't confirmed and it again maybe a glitch. I'm not remotely comfortable adding something of this nature, which could alter a lot, without it being confirmed first. Right now, this isn't confirmation, and there needs to be confirmation especially with what I stated in my comment back in May. Lancer1289 12:26, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

How can I confirm that my playthrough was not affected by a "glitch"? Rtl42 13:59, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well you could try it again on a different playthrough, but what I really want as confirmation also is people doing what you did and reporting the same results. You alone doing something isn't enough in this case and others need to confirme it. As I read it again however, if you kill all 16 colonists the colony won't survive anyway. Lancer1289 14:18, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Is there a good way on the wiki to sorta "recruit" other people to try out various situations and report their results for us? Also, supposing that I were to go back and play through Feros with other characters, would recording my playthrough be worthwhile? Rtl42 14:34, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

As to getting people, well there are people who watch talk pages, so you might have gotten someone just by having this conversation. Apart from that, well I'm not too sure with this one. As to recording, yes it would be worth it. Lancer1289 14:38, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

It would be nice if this was on the front but just to confirm you can say "Wipe everything out." but you must then say "Fine, but don't take chances." if you want to save the colony. Ending with "We can't take the chance." seals the fate of the colony regardless of the 13 points.

I can confirm the observations stated in revisions 218918, 219248, and 447549 are also true in Legendary Edition. Specifically, I did all four colony ops assignments acquired during Feros: Geth Attack and charmed Jeong. Then I made a save, instructed squad to "Wipe everything out." followed by "We can't take the chance.", and saved three colonists. The final journal entry recorded the colony as lost. I reloaded from the save made earlier, selected "Careful. Leave the colonists.", and massacred martyred all of the colonists. This time, the journal recorded the colony was saved. Does anyone object at this point to including this info in the article? Even Lancer1289's original objection was more focused on killing or saving colonists and did not explicitly mention that dialogue did not have an effect. -- Sergets (talk) 18:57, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Interesting, but how does saving/killing Jeong factor in? From my basic understanding so far, it sounds like it's just that the fate of the colony is tied to the dialogue choice before the garage, what does he have to do with it? Is saving him required for this glitch to occur? Neo89515 (talk) 19:56, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

I did not test for that specifically on the assumption that the way it is currently documented in the article is correct. Other guides or walkthroughs on the Internet seem to support the idea that either persuading Jeong or sparing Shiala is necessary for the colony's survival, but for all we know others might simply be sourcing their info from this very same article. For what it's worth, I spared Shiala in both of my tests on the thought that, having charmed Jeong, there would be no affect on the outcome if Shiala was executed and hence no reason to include her fate in my tests. I wanted Shiala alive for ME2 & 3, and also this might sound weird because I typically play a high Intimidate build, but I do find some of these arbitrary executions repulsive to watch. However, now that you bring it up, I think testing combinations of Jeong's fate and Shiala's fate may be useful after all. I'm aware of the MOS proscription of datamining, but maybe a little datamining can at least help point the way... -- Sergets (talk) 00:12, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I did a few more tests focusing on the affects of the pre-assault dialogue on the colony's fate (see below for specifics), and I tried a few variations of letting Shiala live or killing her during those tests. I didn't detect anything that implied Shiala's fate had any influence on the outcome. Since all of my tests were done with a base of where the four colony ops assignments had been completed and Jeong had been charmed, I think the results I saw support the long-standing view that Jeong's and Shiala's contributions to the colony's fate are mutually exclusive and that Jeong's takes precedence. Of course none of this actually verifies the long-standing view that Jeong's contributions have a higher value, and I can think of many more permutations that could be tested, but since nothing that I have found through this recent testing has contradicted the long-standing views on Jeong's and Shiala's contributions, I'm a bit dubious over whether there's value in actually testing out those other permutations. -- Sergets (talk) 04:37, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I've looked into the files (Legendary Edition): it's a bit weird. Shepard saying "We can't take that chance" doesn't itself trigger any transition, however the squadmates' reaction to that do... but they vary on the squadmate. It's gotta be a bug, but here's how it seems to work: there are two possible "transitions" that can fire: "Set_Thorian_Revealed_True" (probably the correct one), and "Set_Too_Many_Killed_True" (which would be the one that automatically makes the colony fail).

According to what I'm seeing, here is which would play according to your squadmates:

• Any combination where Kaidan is present: Set_Too_Many_Killed_True (colony is doomed)
• Any combination where Ashley or Liara is present, but the other squadmate is not Kaidan: Set_Thorian_Revealed_True (colony may survive)
• If neither Ashley or Liara are present: Set_Too_Many_Killed_True (colony is doomed)

This could be a pain to check in-game, but that is definitely what it seems to say. I'll get in touch with the LE1 Community Patch team, they may be able to confirm the bug in-game, and they'll want to know about it to fix in their next update.--Loadingue (talk) 20:20, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

A bit of an eye-opener. My team during testing was Kaidan and Liara. In addition to the two long tests, I also explored the dialogue paths a bit. Liara protested when I chose "Wipe everything out" but Kaidan always had the last word. Kaidan had the last word when I chose "Careful..." instead of "Wipe everything...", and likewise he had the last word regardless of "Fine..." vs "We can't..." after selecting the "Wipe" option. It seems to me that there are a great many places in the game where squadmates have interesting things to say but certain squadmates always have priority over others. So then is this a place where Kaidan always has priority, and thus Kaidan gets to decide on his own whether the colony lives or dies? :) “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - Sir Bertrand Russell

Also may I ask what tool you use for this? Is this part of the collection in Legendary Explorer? This kind of exploration seems very useful, and I would love to learn how to do it myself. -- Sergets (talk) 00:12, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, the priority order for the squadmate comments is as follows: Kaidan > Ashley > Liara > Garrus > Tali (Wrex doesn't have a comment; a sixth squadmate's comment would never play since the other one would always take priority). And yes, I used the Dialogue Editor within the Legendary Explorer. I also want to note that the transition descriptions, "Set_Thorian_Revealed_True" and "Set_Too_Many_Killed_True", were provided to the Legendary Editor makers by BioWare themselves, it is completely reliable. The exact file where to find this dialogue is war20_trigger_dlg inside ME1/BioGame/CookedPCConsole/BIOA_WAR40_11_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc. I've also verified that the situation seems to be identical within the original game, in BioGame/CookedPC/Packages/Dialog/WAR20/war20_trigger_D.upk.--Loadingue (talk) 02:56, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I saw that the MOS states that datamining requires interpretation, but I think observations made during regular game experience require interpretation too. I have gone ahead and run three more in-game tests using different squadmates (ce hench_picksquad is my friend). Same basic starting conditions as in my prior two tests: completed all four colony ops assignments, charmed Jeong. With Liara and Wrex, selecting "Wipe" followed by "We can't..." and then killing everyone resulted in the colony being saved. With Tali and Wrex, selecting "Wipe" followed by "We can't..." and then killing everyone resulted in the colony being lost. With Garrus and Wrex, selecting "Careful" and then killing everyone resulted in the colony being saved. This is absolutely in line with what Loadingue discovered from researching the game files. Loadingue offered to get in touch with the M3/CP1 community, and perhaps it's prudent to wait and see if they have additional insight, but aside from that my own opinion right now is that there's enough evidence to put this dialogue info in the article. -- Sergets (talk) 04:37, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Update: HenBagle, Project Lead on the Community Patch for ME1LE, has personally confirmed the bug and asked me to add it to the mod's GitHub page (here). It should be fixed in the next update, and that should serve as further confirmation of this bug and the need to mention it in the article.--Loadingue (talk) 18:09, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Interesting, but I ask again, because I'm not seeing this getting fully touched on: what do Jeong/Shiala have to do with this bug, if anything? Are they relevant, and if so, how? Or is this entirely dependent on just what squad members are present for the garage conversation? Neo89515 (talk) 21:28, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

No, Jeong and Shiala have nothing to do with it from a technical standpoint (the relevant dialogue branch is the same no matter what). The only things relevant here are selecting the "We can't take that chance" option, and which squadmates are present.--Loadingue (talk) 23:20, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

If in-game testing is desired in addition to what's already been written above, let me also add that in the final set of tests I did, I checked a few variations of killing Shiala or letting her live and changing her survival did not change the outcomes that I was observing. All of my tests started with Jeong charmed, since that was the baseline save game I was working from. All I have observed in-game fully supports what Loadingue found regarding the affects of Kaidan, Liara, and the others (except Ashley - I did Virmire before Feros this playthrough) on the colony's potential to be saved. I know this doesn't exactly address the Jeong aspect of Neo89515's concerns, but considering that my in-game tests have found nothing that contradicts Loadingue's findings through external analysis, I really am not seeing any hint that additional tests might turn up something different. I know my opinion doesn't carry much weight since my contributions are so few, but I really think the external analysis findings should be accepted as proof. These in-game tests do take a long time... -- Sergets (talk) 23:49, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I have no concerns about Jeong/Shiala except that I wanted you guys to confirm they had nothing to do with it since you were mentioning them as part of the testing and so were some of the early entries on this. I personally think this is enough confirmation to go in a Bug report now, as long as you cite this Talk page entry in a Reference footnote. My second request, is that whichever one of you who wants to do the actual page Bug entry come up with your draft of what the Bug report will actually say, leave any additional explanations needed, post it here, and then wait 7 days before implementing on the article as that's our standard wait period for something like this. I personally would probably want to do some testing too; from this it sounds like I've never encountered this bug because I think I've basically ALWAYS had Liara in the party at this stage because she's good against the Thorian Creepers, and I'm willing to bet a lot of people used that same reasoning which is why this bug isn't more widely known/encountered. Neo89515 (talk) 02:41, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I think the obscurity of it has more to do with the fact that it only triggers if you tell your squadmates to shoot colonists, then immediately proceed to save them; no one in their sane mind would do that, except for a morally-questionable challenge maybe. In any case, I don't doubt the previous mentions of Jeong and Shiala were simply because Sergets was simply describing the context thoroughly, but nothing indicates they are relevant in the end.--Loadingue (talk) 02:58, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Note that I did kill all of the colonists and still saved the colony. :) But, honestly, that's my first time taking such an approach - and thus this is also my first time stumbling onto the bug. That's why I mentioned Jeong and Shiala. The write-up in the article explains that saving the colony requires 13 points, and if we do the math, we see it is impossible to acquire 13 points without either saving Jeong or at least a few colonists. Perhaps the idea that the colony can be saved after killing all of the colonists is also a bug... and OMG but I guess I just talked myself into having doubts about all of this. Either way, I can't believe that giving a single order to Kaidan overriding all other flow paths available here is the intended design ("not working as intended" is the definition of a bug, isn't it?). Still, the more I think about it, the more I want to think about it some more. I know I was complaining before about how long the tests take, but when there's good reasons to do more tests, I'd like to join in. But I would first prefer to talk about what the tests are intended to prove or disprove before jumping in. You know, make sure the tests have a clear goal and are fit for purpose. I hope I'm making sense. Sorry if I'm not being particularly articulate right now - I was on my way to bed when I decided to check this page for updates. -- Sergets (talk) 04:00, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Alright, I suggest then that you and Loadingue work this out over Discord or some other channel until you're both in agreement about EXACTLY what's happening -- once you reach consensus, someone write up a description of the bug that could go on the page and place it here for the 7 day period for feedback etc. There is no rush on this, this bug's been around for 15 years it ain't going anywhere. Neo89515 (talk) 05:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

You can find me on the Wiki Discord, name is the same. But your mention of saving the colony with no colonists is something else entirely, what I've investigated so far is only about the colony failing automatically; I haven't seen anything about the opposite.--Loadingue (talk) 10:20, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

We have achieved consensus. This is the proposed change, with the previous paragraph for context:

[...]

The number of colonists you kill will have an impact on the colony's ultimate fate. An autosave is generated right afterwards, and it is recommended you also manually save before you open the door. Equip the Anti-Thorian Gas grenades if you're planning to use them.

Note: due to a bug, selecting "We can't take that risk" while Kaidan is present or neither Liara nor Ashley is present will result in the colony failing at the end of the mission, regardless of the amount of colonists killed or colony assignments completed.

[...]

Is this satisfactory?--Loadingue (talk) 01:02, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

We're definitely going to want a separate Bugs section that describes the conditions of the bug in detail in addition to just a note -- a note is fine to flag the bug for people and then link down to the Bugs section. Note should say something like: "The dialogue option "we can't take that risk" triggers a bug that can make it impossible to save the colony depending on which squad members are present; see Bugs section below" .

Then the full Bug section entry needs to very precisely describe the conditions which can be surprisingly difficult to word to avoid any misinterpretation; I'd go with something like:

The conversation that triggers after first encountering a Thorian Creeper can trigger a bug that makes it impossible to save the Feros colony, regardless of the amount of colonists killed or colony assignments completed. This bug is triggered by choosing the "We can't take that risk" dialogue option, if one of the following conditions is also true:

(1) Kaidan is present, or

(2) if Kaidan is not present, neither Liara or Ashley is present.

By the way, speaking of bugs, since both of you probably played through this section a few times, would either of you be able to confirm/deny the other glitch I reported at the bottom? I know it happens but was never able to get a 2nd confirmation. Thanks. Neo89515 (talk) 15:18, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, your proposal seems worded fine as it is. I don't have anything to add to it. As for the other bug, you mean "Beneficial Glitch Disabling the Colonists"? I don't remember ever coming across that, sorry.--Loadingue (talk) 15:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Used the word "triggers" too many times, which is common for me when I'm typing fast; too bad about the other bug though maybe Sergets can verify. I know I encountered it even in Legendary. Neo89515 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi, pinging back here again. We're at about 7 days, give or take. How does everyone feel about this now? Personally, I like the dual approach of a link in-line in the walkthrough text pointing to the description of the bug in a dedicated section proposed by Neo89515, but for the specific wording I'm more in favor of what Loadingue proposed. In any case, we should be close enough to consensus that we can get something on main now, and if more deliberation on talk: is warranted, that doesn't need to be a blocker for the edit to main, does it? -- Sergets (talk) 21:54, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Right, as Sergets pointed out, we're long past time for the update. I'll update it with what Neo proposed.--Loadingue (talk) 13:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Davin Reynolds

If you choose to melee Davin Reynolds, he is not always removed from the fight. Indeed the melee may reposition him between the rock and wall where you can't get close enough for another melee, but he can easily shoot you. If you now shoot him, he is removed from the fight and the "Colonists Killed" counter is not decremented. (Thus the melee attack protects him as a "saved" colonist.) This is a minor glitch that can be annoying or deadly if you don't realize that you can safely shoot him. I'd add it to the article but I think 3 folks are needed to confirm bugs so if anyone is willing to confirm this, thanks in advance. Gourmetrix (talk) 12:45, December 27, 2015 (UTC)

I had a similar situation. I forgot who the colonist was, but he/she was standing behind a barrier right beside the freighter, next to another colonist. As I ran in and punch them, one immediately got KO-ed, but the other got "shifted" out of the visible map. I can no longer melee him/her, and he/she cannot be targeted. My solution was to throw a grenade at him/her, which indeed knocked him/her out.

So, my suggestion would be to add a generic note, that tells the readers that the fight against the colonists is severely glitched, and various 'strange' situations might happen.  [ pepoluan ^talk ] 09:41, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

I actually made a separate topic on this below, but I can corroborate this (and I guess that counts as the three corroborations needed to put a bug on a page? Not sure). From what I've seen, ANY of the colonists can glitch out and not disappear after hitting them with the Gas or knocking them out with melees, but the game seems to register they've been "saved" all the same, so you can actually just kill them to remove them at that point so they stop shooting you, and the counter for colonists saved doesn't go down. Ale89515 (talk) 02:01, October 8, 2020 (UTC)

I PROTEST

The editorial magnates, baronial "big men" hereabouts, keep trollishly removing my objectivity-laden enhancement of this article.

I object to this plebeian nerviness and stupidity and demand the material to be re-formatted into the article.

I also want to know: what processes of internal administrative review ensuring tunnel-vision consensual reality does not distort the most active editorial persons does this Wikipedia provide?

How are you ensuring you are more than a transparent gang-like groupuscle of petty egotists, agenda-driven devotees, the counter-pole to authentic scholar, of Last Man Nietzschean spiritual fetidness - I can not breathe here! - how are you intellectuals of progressive enlightening of the masses via Web encyclopedic projects, maintaining scientific method and moral integrity beyond mere rhetoric? All I see thus far is empty rhetoric laughaby idiotic and propagandistic as the worst Nazi or Commmunist-Stalinist propaganda. How are you self-authorized licit practitioners of a truly ghastly, obviously Sadism-born coercion over the data and content, making sure democratic elements of governance indeed exist instead of an activist in-group "clerisy" prostituting Enlightenment-humanist thought in a mercenary direction? How dare such people invoke the Kantian genius in their own low scheming! Why do the editors here, as a class, believe they enjoy indisputable license to "imperium" over educational domain content, surpassing Neronian Roman imperialism in its grandiosity and megalomaniacal vileness? Why do you have such a detached, elitist and indeed anti-democratic mental formation, abusing Enlightenment philosophy as an alibi for your own arbitrary dication and distortion of human knowledge?

All evidence points to institutionally educationally deficient, lumpen-proletariat partisan-fanaticists of some weird agenda, usually becoming syndical in various degrees with like-minded personalities of "activistic" inclination, - all evidence is the editorial "officer general class" is a bunch of clownish pitiful sufferers of obscure mental illnesses, nothing even remotely like a spontenously energized, grassroots popular democratic-communitarian libertarian dream, the dream, the phantasm, so imperially asserted as matrix and authenticating ratification itself of your abuse of encyclopedias over virtual reality.

Instead of any communitarian-democratic nature as this and kin-wikis all tirelessly assert in Papalist tone, a tiny pack of petty partisans of typical spirit so ruthlessly analyzed and assessed by Nietzsche, Nietzsche suddenly had to become an American democratic prophet of applie-pie American postmodern anarchism, his analysis of the petty dominators of modern life as barbarian nihilistic philistine slave-souls, so hard-hitting - so for purely tactically academicist reasons, Nietzsche became the wholesomest friend of American pluralist liberal statism instead of its castigator - strange indeed how some currents of scholastic progress work, strange!

Show me you are not as Nietzsche prophesied, how integrality is even attempted - I am not unfair. No one will and censorship is all.

What procedural and juridic-like processes and measures ideally focused on promoting balance and equity, etc. what exists to counter a tiny minority of activist agenda-driven oddballs syndicalized in quasi-cryptocratic fashion, who seize power only justified by their own activism, instead of any relevant educational background, who then exerting in the most debased medievalist fashion, sheerly their own ego and libido dominando, peculiarities of personality deformation and psychopathological maladies, masking their personal weaknesses in a grand masquerading in general? In wiki-land, I see, countlessly again and again the concrete cases, an honest, sincere mentally-sane fan type, having no ill-motives, perhaps not pseudo-educationally "self-legitimized" as those who in their gall of ego seize political decision-making power - no average majoritarian man of the masses, only the crust of the proletariat would-be intellectual class monopolizing and domineering over others unchecked. The demographic profile is below university education, but how they act, the presumption! If allowed a voice, or to voice their own understanding, at all, the average majoritarian commoner, modern bureaucratic nihilist masters of technocratic-age warlordism, muzzled and scornfully maltreat ONLY! If only the editorial Mafiya WAS democratic, and actually respected the human dignity of the common person, wow, how different things might be, vastly!

Rhe elite proletarian element, petit-bourgeois would-be middle class managerialist experts, does nothing but destroy and attack any genuine initiative from the common man modern democrats hate inside their rotten hearts, a hate absent in the worst feudal chieftain, only known to reside in democratic applie-pie hearts, worm-ridden, I mean, angelic.

You have no standards of accountability; justice; avoidance of self-referential profiteering, nothing at all to prevent even worst-case scenario, actual Mafia penetration. Only rationality-void Sadean libido animal merely.

What do you men Nietzsche knew so well, "get", from manipulating and controlling people in this manner, in terms of hedonic psychological reward or otherwise? Within species, intra-specific differentia can indeed be profound.

I am not of your race, and would rather die than be of your race who rule this modernity, defined by rabblement inversion of all order.

Should not the propagandistic nonsense about Enlightenment-ideology inspiration and demo-libertarian, humanistic foundations to this and associated encyclopedic misadventures, should not we tone down such propaganda so outlandishly paper-thin and hypocritical? Why not tell the truth: democracy is nonexistent, those editors who are merely more active instead of informed decide matters autocratically, and commonly there is even coordinated small-group ideological extremists, pathetic cadres of fanatics, all defined in their dedication to their agendas instead of actuality; every thinkable cohort of fanatics dedicated schizophrenically to this or that agenda, these are the "Democratic-Humanist-Progressive" setters of tone, determiners of policy, etc., serving in pretend selflessness, as the "magistrates in office" when only in the best cases, not being subversively-oriented and as anti-intellectual, reactionary as the human mind can conceptualize...?

Tell the people you pretend to democratically value, the truth.

The editors who are censoring me in medieval-style petty princelet tyranny own a license to imperium, wholly fraudulent, empty and we should engage and dialogue each other as MEN instead of effeminately erasing the words of other people like cowards and savages... Only contemptibly cowardly persons of slavish pedigree would allow themselves to act thus-wise, truly -

Some of the editorial self-elected, self-legitimized magistracy hereabouts must not be utterly slavish by blood and instinct, or am I wrong? I contest your authority and lineage of asserted Kantian-illuminated nobility. Prove me WRONG, I dare any of you - I DARE YOU. Where are checks and balances limiting activist editorial distortive forces; where are democratical governance features exist; where is educational authenticity granted priority over petty-political Machiavellianism; where is the system of checks and balances, making your quaint notion of "PEER PROFESSIONAL CONSENSUS-REVIEW" more than some sham college initiation, peer-review a hazing custom or something?

Where is your justification to dominate other human beings, and dominate human knowledge, where, I ask...?

Consensus of creditable scholars, LOL. Peer-review, blah blah blah - PLEASE! Patent superstructure hiding the editorial bankruptcy. Tools of libidinally-centered, all-too-human earthly socio-political games of power of childishness, that is all - wow, if only I had the believing nature of the editorial class hegemon, so pious, so pure and pious in belief!

All you editorialism-empowered holy believers in "PEER REVIEW CIRCULAR SELF-GLORIFICATION" as unquestionable dogmatic holiness itself, as pure epistemological verification itself, as if a droplet from the noumenal domain itself, a piece of heaven itself, please realize your standards are nonexistent if rooted in "peer review scientific editorialism". Peer-review more often than not is detrimental to human cognitive illumination Kantian and the rhetorical trash about some sort of scientific halo surrounding this artificial method of restraining the human libido dominandi, is trash and trash only.

I dare you to engage me intellectually, cowardly editorial usurpers ruining the whole mass-cyber age encylopedia idea out of malevolent and weird impulsions.

LOL, even the most establishment-minded intellectuals of this ideology of hollowed-out pseudo-liberal pseudo-humanist Enlightenment, well, at least, the more honest among the clerisy of our scientific priesthood today, the more integral among the most advanced perpetuators of this world-view, concede, out of embarassed shame and dirty nagging conscience, the whole "PEER REVIEW" criterion all editorial good Boy Scouts know as Providential to goodness itself, is nothing but a spook, an excuse for insular egotism, idolatry again, when it comes down to it -

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110427/full/472391a.html

I bring the hammer to all the idols of you slaves. And that is not ad hominem, that is characterological loyalty to the facts as present upon exhibition. The case as the case presents. You editorial raptor-like seizors of control hereabouts, draw your sword and engage! I dare you! Engage INTELLECTUALLY not personally, facts I have chaotically relayed -

Class pride among yourselves, I know, is so pervasive, high-flying, off-world, boggles the mind. You personality type sufferers falling into the modern editorial-managerial role naturally, in every other age you would be servants and butlers!

Posing as "elite proletarian" vanguards, of the quality of an illuminator like Kant, etc. in your maniacal wildness, it boggles the mind...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 104.131.161.230 (talk · contr).

Cool story bro. Ale89515 (talk) 23:09, September 17, 2020 (UTC)

Council dialogue tree

Is there a dialogue tree for the conversation with the council so people can know when is a good time to disconnect? Something should be added to the article to let you know which choice is the last one. IRMacGuyver (talk) 02:40, March 15, 2018 (UTC)

Beneficial Glitch Disabling the Colonists

Wanted to put this in the page but as it's likely a bug (though a beneficial one) it needs to go here:

I noticed long ago that often, trying to disable the colonists without killing them, either with the gas grenades or melees, doesn't seem to work; either the grenades don't knock them out, or they just get right back up after being meleed to the ground repeatedly.

However, more recently I discovered that if you've used a legitimate means of knocking the colonists out that SHOULD have knocked them out but didn't and they're still active for some reason, just killing them at that point does not count as killing them - the counter for the colonists remains the same and doesn't go down even if you just gun them down. To be clear, this ONLY applies to colonists you have already used gas or melees on. So in other words, the game seems to register those colonists as "saved" even though they glitch out and don't disappear like they should, so you can safely kill them to remove them from the fight.

Ale89515 (talk) 23:15, September 17, 2020 (UTC)

I seem to recall this happening to me once around when MELE came out (Ian Newstead in my case). My recollection is hazy, but your description fits with what little I do recall.

I have a save game from just before starting the Zhu's Hope battle crawl, and I'll try to get it to trigger next week when I should have some free time available. I'll write an update here if I can discover anything. -- Sergets (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

I tried to get this bug to trigger a few times but didn't have any luck. I'll try more extensively at some point in the future. I could have sworn I remember this happening to me at least once in the past. -- Sergets (talk) 12:34, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Exciting news! I got the bug to trigger thrice: once on Ledra in one run and then twice in a single run, on Hana Mukanari and on a generically named Colonist near the Borealis remote control console. Anti-Thorian Gas (ATG) upgraded grenades and melee attacks, which typically function as instant non-lethal takedowns for infected colonists, instead did regular damage. Killing the colonists afterwards did not result in the "Colonists Alive" counter decrementing.

In these occurrences of the glitch, I had instructed my squadmates to spare the colonists. In all three occurrences, the colonists affected by this glitch were likely or definitely hit by splash damage from my squadmates' tech mines. Thorian Creepers had been knocked into the vicinity of infected colonists, and I manually selected tech mine attacks from the command HUD targeted on the Creepers, not the colonists. I wasn't looking for this with Ledra, so I am only assuming he was hit by splash damage because of how close he was to a Creeper that was targeted. However, with the generically named Colonist and with Hana, I was definitely watching for this, and am certain that both were affected by tech mines. Both exhibited the visual effect of Sabotage (glowing yellow veins), and I saw Hana's HP had decreased when I hovered my crosshairs over her. For these reasons, I believe that this glitch is somehow linked to the infected colonists taking some kind of non-ATG / non-melee damage before being attacked by ATG or melee. I am not certain whether this applies to any form of non-ATG / non-melee damage, just some form of tech mine splash damage, or only splash damage from specific types of tech mines (in all three instances I was activating pretty much every tech mine my squadmates were trained in), nor can I determine whether this damage must come from squadmates or if Sheppard doing the damage may also trigger the glitch.

If no one can elucidate further, I'll test some of these theories later in a different playthrough. It will probably be a while before I get around to that, though, so hopefully someone else might come up with a better means of gathering info on this glitch in the meantime. -- Sergets (talk) 20:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Interesting. Yes, you very well could be on to something with the tech mines, because I very often use Sabotage on the colonists just to get them to stop firing. Neo89515 (talk) 22:44, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok I just got this bug to trigger over and over for no reason that I could discern. I was testing the effects of various tech mines, but I found no effect from tech mines. So scratch above theory, unfortunately. Also, I was getting the bug to appear once every five or so quick loadings, which is more than I think I've ever seen before. Not sure if that's just RNG or if I did something to influence that. -- Sergets (talk) 20:01, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

To confirm: (1) you used gas or melees on the colonists (2) they didn't go down, or they got back up (3) you then killed them (4) the game still treated the colonists as "saved" (the counter didn't go down)? Neo89515 (talk) 23:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. I'd throw an ATG grenade and a colonist that was being affected by the glitch would go down and take damage, but the colonist would get back up, and I could then proceed to kill that colonist using normal means without the colonists alive counter decrementing.

Davin Reynolds seemed to be the most frequent subject but I saw it happen with various other colonists as well. Interestingly enough, Davin starts next to a colonist (Calantha Blake, I think?), and the times he was being affected by the glitch, if I threw an ATG at the two of them, the other colonist would be saved / removed like normal but Davin would get back up and continue fighting. -- Sergets (talk) 01:15, 9 November 2022 (UTC)