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Udina in Cerberus?

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Does anyone here think that maybe Udina is working for Cerberus as some kind of spy/corrupt representative? Let's look at the facts: Udina and Cerberus are both xenophobes and strive for the advancement of the human race, they both betray Shepard at some point in a way that gives the Reapers the advantage, and in the game it is always the Renegade choice for siding with them (making Udina the Counciler/handing the Collector Base over to the Illusive Man). It could be that Udina is undercover for Cerberus. Maybe if you make Udina the Counciler and let the Council die, then in a way, you put Cerberus in charge of Citadel Space as well as make them humanity's representative instead of the Alliance.RiftJargon 18:09, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I've never thought about it before but it sounds plausible. I hope he is working for Cerberus so that I can have a legitimate reason to shoot him in the face.--DeadDATA 19:28, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with DeadDATA,I woul be extraordinarily happy if that was shown to be true in Mass Effect 3 and there was a way to kill him. I would do it, no doubt. He is the character I hate the most out of the whole game. 99.71.119.115 04:11, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, I never thought to connect the two. Now I really wish for Udina's demise. Not that I have anything against Cerberus, but if Udina is involved . . . . A.J. two 06:27, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Seems more like an excuse to hate Udina to me. Udina goal of advancing humanity is abundantly clear, but he seeks to do it in within the currently established system of government, rather then the Illusive Man who wishes to replace this system of government entirely. In other words, Udina wants to make things better by playing the alien's game, which like any political system is cutthroat and bureaucratic, and hoping he can eventually win a few crutial hands, while TIM considers it impossible to win a rigged game, so does not even try. Udina stresses cooperation and compromise, the core of the Council, completely contrary to Cerberus belief. And, of course, Udina does not believe in the Reapers, while in ME2 at least TIM does. so why not use such a critical agent to encourage a more defensive stance? In the end it may happen, but i would find it a little too convenient that everyone Shepard does not like joins up with the machines that will surely kill them after.--Ironreaper 14:45, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

While you're entitled to your own opinion, this is "not" a thread for hating on Udina! I just stated a theory that I had that Udina might be working for Cerberus as some kind of spy/representative. I cannot control what posts come in to this thread and I choose not too, because these people have the right to express their own opinions and ideas. What you seem to be getting irritated with is that so far everyone that has made a post has said that they want Udina to die. Well, again that is not my doing and it is also understandable because even if most people dislike him for his treatment of the player and the idea of him actually being evil seems plausible. Plus, it excites them because they might get a chance to kill him, because he openly shows a dislike for Shepard. So just to clarify, this is not a thread for hating on Udina it's just for talking about what possibilities might insue if he were to be revealed as working for Cerberus in Mass Effect 3.RiftJargon 15:08, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

It is amazing how you start by stating that everyone is entiled to their opinion then fiercely demean mine as being wrong. That point was in the first sentence i will remind you, as the rest of my comment was devoted to the reasoning why this is may not happen. It makes people feel so welcome to comment dosent it when comments that do not contribute any real option to the topic at hand are accepted were as mine is decried because you felt personally insulted by my opinion.--Ironreaper 18:00, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

You being entitled to your own opinion doesn't mean that I have to agree with you in any way. Nobody's opinion is more important than someone else's. I don't care if the person that I'm talking to is an admin, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything you say. Further more, all I did was say what the purpose of this thread was, and if you have issues with what the topic of this thread is then you are welcome to leave because I don't want this conversation about a simple theory to turn into an arguement because you didn't like the thread and refused to leave. So, while you are entiled to your own opinion, if you are here to talk about just how dumb the thread is, then I politely request that you find another thread becuase this has been a friendly conversation up until you started posting. If you decide that you would like to actually contribute to the conversation then by all means stay. Otherwise, I don't need this crap from you.RiftJargon 18:12, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

I actually didn't think Udina was apart of Cerberus until his actions lead directly to the death of Executor Pallin in Mass Effect: Inquisition. I don't know what the Executor was accused of doing, but I believed he was a good cop in ME1. Udina being a member of Cerberus would fit in with him framing Pallin since he could then appoint a human executor or an executor who owes him favors. Plus, it makes sense that TIM would have someone that close to the Council since he has so thoroughly infiltrated every other area of the galaxy.--Captainhu 18:28, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I got the idea for this theory when I remember what the Illusive Man says at the end of the Paragon ending, "Strength for Cerberus is Strength for Every Human." I started thinking about it and just thought that what if one of the sub-plots (not romance) in Mass Effect is to decide how much power that Cerberus has throughout the Galaxy. With Udina as the Counciler they would have significant/total control over Citadel Space, and with the Collector Base in the Illusive Man's possession, he they have access to a base with extremely advanced technology that can only be reached by a ship with a Reaper IFF, such as the Normandy.RiftJargon 22:05, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

I hope Udina is not siding with them we were getting along so nicely him being anderson's lap dog and all. I would hate to have to make more stains on the ground then there has to be but if this comes to pass I will certainly put him down. VampiricBeast13(ANGELOFDAEXILED) 01:58, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

^Ummm...In ME3, Udina is now the human Councilor regardless of who you chose at the end of ME1. Admiral Anderson will be on Earth "Fighting the good fight."--Captainhu 04:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Anderson gets to stay being Counciler. From what we know, he is only a temporary squad member and the only place that we've seen him helping Shepard is in the opening battle when Earth is attacked by the Reapers. Anderson is a military leader, so I see no reason why he couldn't fight, represent humans on the council, and cordinate attacks. Even though Udina is more familiar with politics than Anderson is, that really isn't required in ME3. Plus, I don't think that the game designers would give us the option of putting Anderson on the council to (quoting ME1) repel the Reaper invasion, and then just take him off in the last game where your decision of who got put on the council really has an impact.RiftJargon 12:56, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

For good or for ill that is exactly what Bioware did. Check out Mass Effect: Retribution, it's all there. Casey Hudson and many others have already confirmed that all the books and comics are canon heading into ME3.--Captainhu 21:40, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't doubt for a second that Bioware would use the stories from the comics and the books and integrate them into Mass Effect 3. However, I believe that when making the comics/books Bioware had to use someone for the human counciler, and because Udina us the default counciler if players didn't play Mass Effect 1, he seemed like the appropriate choice. So I do think that Bioware will use as much of the stuff from the books and comics as humanly possible, but if they were to use Udina as the Counciler even though we already saw that he wasn't chosen (if you didn't pick him), then that would be a major design flaw. Bioware delayed the game's release so that it could be in tip-top shape at the time of its release. If they had kept that from Retribution, then it would be just like the Conrad Verner bug where he was renegade no matter what you did. And that made a lot of people upset.RiftJargon 15:19, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Anderson is the councilor in Retribution at first. Actually, it's written so that whatever job he has on the Citadel; he gives it up at during the story in order to go kick butt. I'll try and get dev confirmation for you that Udina is the councilor.--Captainhu 17:28, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Anderson does appear to hate his job as Councilor during ME2, describing it as banging his head against a brick wall from what I remember.--DeadDATA 18:28, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well if he gives up the job that would make sense and granted I never really read Retribution, and I do know from looking at the wiki's storyline page that Udina is the Counciler. I've been playing video games all my life and this just seems like a really wierd curve ball for them to throw at us. Not that they can't do it, because I've seen games of this calibur make mistakes, but I just don't see how that makes any sense. Let me put it to you this way, what if I were to reverse my previous arguement about the player choosing Anderson as Counciler and the books/comics depicting Udina as Counciler. In other words, what if you chose Udina as the Counciler, then that would mean that there is still a plot hole since Udina was chosen as the human counciler in Mass Effect 2, but in Retribution it depicts Anderson giving up the Counciler position and passing it on to Udina. There are just to many plot holes in that single situation. I'm sorry but, how can Udina become Counciler, then for some unexplained reason Anderson is suddenly Counciler, then Anderson decides to make Udina Counciler again; that just seems kinda tedious and stupid. If you can explain that to me then please do I can't make any sense out of that.RiftJargon 19:02, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

That is a weird predicament but I guess those are the cautions that the developers face when trying to expand on universes that are unique with each person.--DeadDATA 19:54, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
It's not that bad. If you pick Udina to be the councilor, Anderson becomes his assistant. In Retribution, Anderson simply abandons this position and goes about his business. Plot hole sealed. Don't get me wrong; I'm not defending Bioware's decision. So far, this is the most disappointing thing about ME3, but it is what it is. I don't like it. In fact, I think it constitutes a betrayal to the player, but I have to take the bad with the good sometimes.--Captainhu 19:58, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well I guess that even though Udina is given the Counciler position, Anderson might be given something special for leading the defense of Earth. Maybe he'll even be made a Spectre or regain Counciler status. Maybe if he survives the Reaper invasion the Council will give him a special honor that will make up for him losing the first human Counciler position. Now that I've thought it over, I'm pretty sure Bioware has a good reason for making him give up such an important position to someone who hates you.RiftJargon 20:24, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Right can we just hold phone can someone give us a quote that shows that Anderson gave the counciler position to Udina in Retribution all it says on his page is that he leave Udina to continue negotiations while he helps Sanders does not mean he said Udina could be counciler besides Anderson lets Udina do most of the work, letting him go to boring the meetings. (I wish I could read the books but I just cant find them here in Scotland) USER: JediSpectre117 21:53, August 19,2011 (UTC)

I've never read Mass Effect: Retribution, but you're right about how it says on Anderson's page that he simply tells Udina to take of the trade negotiations, but that aside there are others who have read the book and the most widely accepted interpretation is that Udina is the new counciler, but I think you are probably right about him just temporarily taking over.RiftJargon 21:50, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I've got it! Maybe the writers of the comics/books didn't get careless after all. Look at it this way, it says in Retribution that Anderson passes along the trade negotiations to Udina, well that could work together with Anderson being counciler or Udina being counciler. If Anderson is Counciler then he has Udina take over his political work during his absence, but if Udina is Counciler then Anderson abandons his position as Udina's lap dog and only passes along his current assignment (the trade negotiations) to Udina. That way it works with the story and the books/comics don't ignore the player's decisions during the Mass Effect video games. It might be possible that Udina is temporarily taking over for Anderson if the player chose Anderson for the Council position. If the player chose Udina, then I predict upon returning from battle, Anderson won't be receiving a very pleasant welcome from Counciler Udina since Anderson ignored his duties to go enjoy the glories of battle. I've looked over the books and comics a bit and this theory seems to fit in.RiftJargon 15:48, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Let us be clear that Anderson is never Udina's lap dog. He is promoted to the rank of Admiral and acts as his advisor, not his pet.--DeadDATA 19:36, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

No offense intended it was just a way of phrasing it. I know that Anderson isn't like Udina's #1 fan, or his political suck-up; lap dog has, for some reason, just been the way this forum has used to describe the personal advisor, whether it be Anderson or Udina.RiftJargon 20:24, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

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