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Ok it has recently been proposed but since we have quotes for most of the Spoiler Templates, we currently do need one for the Mass Effect and Mass Effect Galaxy ones. There was a discussion about the ME one on the link above, and nine previous proposals, but are there any more. Effectofthemassvariety put some of them up in his sandbox, also linked above, but any more.
Not sure if we need to bring up other quotes for templates, but opinions on that matter are great. Also I do like #9 for the ME template, and currently do like the rest of the quotes. Lancer1289 18:43, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Commdor did in fact choose a quote for the Galaxy tag. We currently have the quote "Sorry pal, I can't let you in here." on that one. I like that one because it's kind of saying you can't let the User into that section because it contains spoilers. That one is great. As for the ones on the my sandbox, I really like 3 & 9. However, I'll cast my official vote for number 9. --Effectofthemassvariety 20:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
Number 9 is said by Anderson after watching the Eden Prime vid. It therefore alludes to the 1st indication of the main plot thrust (Sovereign's plan to destroy all galactic civilizations); it's more meaningful to readers who have already played. So I again cast my vote for #3: it does exactly the same, but bears more relevance to the uninformed reader (for whose sake the spoiler exists), since neither Shepard nor such a reader knows yet of Sovereign's "plan". -/\- AnotherRho 21:34, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I like #9. Not gonna lie, I'm not a fan of #3. It's definitely near the bottom in my ranking of possibilities, since it's a much more specific quote than #9. I'm not a fan of specificity in these things, preferring general quotes that are more applicable to the actual purpose of the spoiler tag. I can't say I see any relevance to an uninformed reader in the following: "Whatever your plan is, it's going to fail. I'll make sure of that." Certainly not more than something as general as "This mission just got a lot more complicated." To me, keeping in mind that (IMO, at least) "relevant" in this context refers to the relevance of the quote to the spoiler tag it will be part of, and to the objective of said spoiler tag (informing readers of spoilers), #9 is far and away the best and most relevant option. Oh, and the current quote for the Galaxy tag works for me. SpartHawg948 21:56, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I too like the Galaxy tag, for the aforesaid reasons. Also agree as to the meaning of "relevant" in this context. The relevance of #3 is stated here (both the speaker and ME-newbie reader are unaware of the plot). As for being a warning to stop reading, none of the proposed lines do that. #s 9 & 3 are as meaningless to spoiler-warning as is the current ME2 spoiler tag.
- If we want a line that warns one away from reading, perhaps we should take a line from Udina. Such as, (A) "Now is the time for discretion, Commander." Or (B), "Settle down, Commander." Or, (C) "We've locked out all of the Normandy's primary systems, until further notice you're grounded." Or, (D) "I think it's time for you and your team to leave, Commander, this no longer concerns you." Or Anderson, (E) "This comes down from the top, Commander. Information strictly on a need-to-know basis." Just a few suggestions. In my view anyway, A, D, and E, are superior to all 9 of the others. -\/- AnotherRho 23:09, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I can't see how #9 is not relevant to the purpose at hand. Things getting more complicated can easily be construed as referring to the plot, which does tend to get more complicated as the game progresses, across all levels, not just the main plot. As for #3, I think it's too specific to be used as a general spoiler tag for all ME info. If it were merely going to be used for the Mass Effect page and pages dealing strictly with the core plot-line, your reasoning would be sound. However, how is it at all applicable to pages such as Chellick, Samesh Bhatia, or the Citadel Council? Who is the enemy we're making sure will fail there? Rita, Clerk Bosker, and the turian Councilor? Again, if the spoiler tag were only to be used for core-plot material, your argument for #3 would be spot-on. But it isn't only for core-plot material. It's for every spoiler in ME, regardless of how it relates to the core plot, or stopping the mission of your enemy. SpartHawg948 23:29, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
An interesting case. One can say that #3 is as relevant for those pages as #9, since they are irrelevant to "the mission" spoken of in 9 (the mission is to pick up the beacon, and failing that, to hunt and stop Saren. Side assignments are not parts of the mission). True, one can construe the "mission" to include all side assignments and side characters, but one could do the same with the unspecified "plan" (the "mission" and the "plan" are indeed of a piece). That said, I still think that 9 and 3 and all the rest fail in face of A, D, and E, above, all of which warn the reader away from spoilers, and are very general (i.e., vague, applicable to anything). In fact, I withdraw my vote for 3, and vote instead for E (A is a close second). -- AnotherRho 23:43, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Or the case could just as easily be made that "the mission" of #9 is whatever mission is applicable for the spoilers. It does not necessarily in and of itself, devoid of the context of the conversation it is included in, state what "the mission" is. On the other hand, #3 is not nearly as universal, as there must be a plan that some other person has which needs to be made to fail. #9 is plenty vague and applicable, which is why I don't see any issue with it, and thus give it my continuing support. D and E above strike me as too lengthy for a small spoiler tag (I had previously deemed "Looks like you boys were after the same thing as me." as too long for use in a tag, and it is shorter than either D or E), and A, while not bad, doesn't seem as applicable, IMO. Discretion? Is it time for us to discretely read the spoilers? But that one is a purely opinion-based objection, as opposed to my objection to the other two on stylistic/practicality grounds. SpartHawg948 23:52, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
- In passing, one may observe that the ME2 spoiler is equally exposed to Spart's argument. - Again, 9 is OK for the reasons you gave; but it has no relevance at all to the issue of warning the reader of spoilers. And yet it's to be on a spoiler-warning. The Galaxy tag is preferable because it is relevant to warning the unwary away from spoilers. As for A (which is shorter than 9), "discretion" is the same thing as "judgment", with a peculiar sense (in some uses) of being related to information. So, "Now is the time for discretion" means that one (i.e. the reader) must now exercise judgment and decide whether or not to read the subsequent information. Thus A actually expresses a sort of warning or caution. -- AnotherRho 00:20, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I am, of course, well aware of what the word discretion means, so a definition was not necessary. I was referencing its more common usage, but am, again, well aware of what the word means. SpartHawg948 00:25, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Can only go by what you write. But good; so there is agreement on the meaning. To repeat, then, A appears to be a superior quote for the purpose of warning the unwary reader of potential spoilers, on a par with the Galaxy and Redemption warning tags. -- AnotherRho 00:41, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
Don't misconstrue what I've said. I agreed with you on the definition of discretion, which is a no-brainer. As I made clear in my last substantive post though, I still feel #9 to be the best option, superior even to option A. Remember my whole "purely opinion-based objection, as opposed to my objection to the other two on stylistic/practicality grounds"? SpartHawg948 00:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- (Edit conflict)Coming into this, I agree with Spart that #9 is the superior quote. #3 is also at the extreme bottom of my list, which is in order from best to worst: 9, 6, 8, 1, 2, 4, 7, 5, and then 3. Most of the problems that I have with three are already listed by Spart, but one of the other ones that I have is how that quote is much more vague than the one from nine. Three's is much more offputting than nine in how it enourages people to read on. Well that's my opinion anyway don't know if it is shared. Lancer1289 01:00, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- I didn't misconstrue. I meant we agree on the meaning of the sentence. Lancer, other proposals include: (A) "Now is the time for discretion, Commander." Or (B), "Settle down, Commander." Or, (C) "We've locked out all of the Normandy's primary systems, until further notice you're grounded." Or, (D) "I think it's time for you and your team to leave, Commander, this no longer concerns you." Or Anderson, (E) "This comes down from the top, Commander. Information strictly on a need-to-know basis." Spart and I were discussing (A) most recently. -- In light of the fact that (A) actually warns the reader, and 9 does not, I said that A is better. Word. --AnotherRho 01:06, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Something else that, for some reason, just occurred to me. I earlier objected to quotes for the ME Incursion and Inquisition tags because I don't like the idea of using quotes that refer to one specific character. The quote then in use for Incursion was a quote referring to Aria T'Loak (the main character of Incursion), and the one for Inquisition referred to a "Captain", this being Captain Bailey (the main character of Inquisition). As such, I'll have to throw that objection out there for quote "A" as well. I don't like the idea of using a quote that references one specific character by name or title, as it pretty effectively prohibits the tag from being generalized enough to be (IMO) suitable. Just something to think about that, as mentioned before, should have occurred to me much earlier. SpartHawg948 01:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Then here is my new list: 9, 6, 8, 1, D, E, 2, 4, B, 7, 5, C, A, and then 3. I agree with Spart that nine is superior in many ways to A and espeically three. I do think that nine does a great job, which none of those do, and especially A and three, which are the worse on my list. Also I think Spart mentinoned somewhere about quotes referencing one specific person, I can't remember where though, but I have to agree with that. Lancer1289 01:18, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- And Spart said what I thought he did, and where he did. Lancer1289 01:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- (Frankly, since the reader is a potential Commander for the first game, I see nothing wrong with it, but that's just my opinion—"Commander" could be redacted). If you agree with Spart in "many ways", then you'd agree that A is not bad, but not preferred in "a purely opinion-based" sort of way. You'd also agree that 3 is "spot-on" for the main plot, but not the side quests and characters. I think (though I may be mistaken) Spart and I agree in many respects, but we're simply emphasizing different things (and therefore have different preferences). Still, for the objective reason he gave earlier, 9 is more adequate than 3 for every (possible) ME page. And again, 9 is (as are 1-8) somewhat inadequate for the reason that it is not a warning of upcoming spoilers. Of course, neither is the ME2 spoiler-warning quote. -- AnotherRho 03:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, it works if you interpret it as meaning that the reader's chances of surviving spoiler-free if they keep reading are slim. :P
- We do agree on many points, though I must say that the fact that the player is a Commander in the games changes my objection to character-specific quotes not at all. After all, Aria and Bailey are the main characters of their comics. Still prevents the quote from being as generalized as it should be. SpartHawg948 03:37, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Ha ha! (actually, I did think that). I figured you meant that (since you gave those other examples); just stating my (in this case non-agreeing) opinion that in this case the reader is (potentially) the Commander. ... Not that it matters, since obviously 9 is going to be the spoiler-quote-elect. Oh well; never hurts to exercise the mind and keyboard ticklers. (edit conflict) I also like 6, but only because it is funny. -- AnotherRho 03:49, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- On 2nd (or 15th) thought, I suppose #9 can be taken as a sort of notice, at least, that details follow. -/\- AnotherRho 04:35, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
- I think that 9 is a perfect tag because (like Spart already pointed out) it is stating that the details in the following section are complicated, and, in turn, full of spoilers. As for your suggestions, AnotherRho, they were just barely on the edge for me. They had the potential to be good, but they're just too long. --Effectofthemassvariety 06:03, October 29, 2010 (UTC)